<yitz> So... is someone gonna open with a synopsis?
<MollyK> hmm
<Bald> well it should be the person who nominated the book
<Bald> but I don't think that will happen :)
<MollyK> oops, what happened to Evgeny?
<MollyK> he was here a few minutes ago
<MollyK> ah
<Anguissette> how about i start off with....it was too fishy for me
<Evgeny> sorry
<yitz> Your disguise failed
<Bald> hi ya Evgeny
<Evgeny> good evening, BaldScribe
<Bald> you going to lead us today?
<Evgeny> if you let me to :-)
<MollyK> why not start off, Evgeny?
<Bald> have it 2 minutes til start
<Evgeny> i would prefer people to be leaded by themselves, though
<Evgeny> :-)
<Evgeny> "Startide Rising" is a sci-fi novel, featuring on adventures of an Earth starship "Streaker" struggling to evade the grip of Galactics races, who are wishing to take the information of an ancient fleet that "Streaker" has accidentally discovered.
<Evgeny> What makes the story unique among other space soap operas is the plot line of "Streaker" being operated not by Humans but Neo-fins -- a neologism for a dolphin race made sentient after a play with their genes, a process known as "uplift".
<Evgeny> That's quite an idea which shows a beautiful way the Humankind could practice, one day we stop killing people for the profit of Business and starve people to death with the lack of our concern. That is, to share our intelligence with other species of the Earth, such as dolphins.
<Evgeny> I propose to watch a couple of videos of those cute critters, if you like:
<Evgeny> And it would be very interesting to learn: did you ever encounter dolphins in your life?
<yitz> URL Title: 'YouTube - Dolphin Parenting' (at www.youtube.com)
<yitz> Failed to fetch a Title for the URL.
<Bald> Well I still have to get over the idea of dolphins talking
<Bald> but yes a good goal for humanity
<Bald> but ... do you think that would really happen?
<Anguissette> no
<Bald> are we capable of being so selfless?
<MollyK> it could happen, of course, and not selflessly either
<Evgeny> there's nothing impossible from the point of view of the modern science
<Bald> I don't know Evgeny ... getting dolphins to talk is beyond my ability to believe
<Mysterytrain> oh I don't know about that
<Mysterytrain> they're already trying
<MollyK> though remember back in 1983 there was still a great deal in interest in the idea that altruism is hardwired into humans
<Evgeny> the idea is not any worse than immortality of humans, that could be also achieved, in theory. The only question is: are we ready to that?
<Bald> that is true MollyK I remember it well
<Anguissette> who would want to live forever? that'd get awfully boring
<Bald> and there are people doing wonderful work such as Goodall
<yitz> Anguissette: Suicide isn't that common
<MollyK> the whole Uplift saga is still a good example of attempting to think outside of conventional science
<Bald> though I think Brin did a great job of helping us put disbelief on hold
<Anguissette> yitz: who mentioned suicide?
<MollyK> at that point, IMHO he wasn't yet as skilled a writer, so a great deal of his interesting thought doesn't come through smoothly
<Bald> well I think the possibility of et's is greater than getting fish to talk
<MollyK> dolphins aren't fish
<JWolf> I agree
<MollyK> but really, it hardly matters
<Mysterytrain> dolphins already talk. it's just a matter of learning the language. lol
<JWolf> ETs are easier to take then humanes genetically engineering dolphins to talk
<Bald> I know dolphins aren't fish but I hate to think about eating my ancestors
<MollyK> I consider the whole interspecies communication thing a device
<Evgeny> MollyK: could you please, go on with your idea?
<Bald> Certainly a device at this point ... but we don have thing to discover yet
<MollyK> well, if we were to go into space
<MollyK> and find other species had been at it for millennia
<Anguissette> we do go into space....
<Bald> which we better do IMHO
<Anguissette> oh species..
<MollyK> wouldn't it be possible that we could think of the intelligent species we at least share a planet with as less foreign?
<Bald> If we don't get into space ... it is going to either be a crowded world or one in constant war
<MollyK> its really just an extension of the idea that Aliens Attack will cause humans to band together
<Mysterytrain> we're about 300 years from developing plausible interstellar travel though
<MollyK> but there is also another idea in this book
<Evgeny> The idea of uplifting dolphins is especially interesting, because humans don't live in the ocean.
<MollyK> an engineer's idea, really - that relying on conventional wisdom leads to lack of innovation
<MollyK> and that lack of innovation will in the end fail
<Bald> the idea of preserving species until they uplift themselves is one I can get behind
<Bald> No we don't live in the ocean but we certainly came from the ocean
<MollyK> humans are in some ways very lonely
<Bald> and who is to say that another spicies can not do the same
<MollyK> we have separated from a natural environment, and now we are looking around in large numbers for neighbors
<Bald> but the question I think is, do they have time to 'uplift' themselves
<MollyK> well, as things are going right now, I would say probably not
<Bald> or will we as a spices put an end to all hope
<MollyK> though if they DID, the results would surely be smoother
<Evgeny> MollyK: yes, the idea of a Library, composed by a mighty ancestor race, that contains a good share of the existing knowledge, including designs and recipes. A lot of Galactics races, who base their development solely on ready recipes from the Library are shown as retards, fanatics, struggling for power as a sole goal.
<Bald> but that sounded so .... human to me
<MollyK> the idea of humans as the nimble acrobats of the universe, the clever tinkerers...
<verbatim> "A Human Language Gene Changes the Sound of Mouse Squeaks" http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/29/science/29mouse.html
<MollyK> its not only *human*, it's quite a guy thing
<yitz> URL Title: 'A Human Language Gene Changes the Sound of Mouse Squeaks - NYTimes.com' (at www.nytimes.com)
<MollyK> wow, verbatim, an interesting thought
<Bald> it is
<JWolf> I wonder how that gene would do in chimps
<Bald> who knows what modifications McDonalds is making to us
<MollyK> eep
<Bald> hehe
<Mysterytrain> lol
<JWolf> McDonalds is making us fat
<Mysterytrain> mmm fries
<JWolf> That's their modification to humanity
<Evgeny> I wouldn't say the idea of a Library is something that can never occur our days. For example, consider North Korea and nukes. What is an old technology by itself, but potentially dangerous in hands of fanatics.
<JWolf> Why is it that future humans are not portraid as having as many physical problems as we do now?
<MollyK> we were all a lot younger then
<MollyK> and many tech people still believe in science as a solution to medical problems
<MollyK> heaven knows I thought so myself
<Bald> JWolf i think Brin tried to get that accross
<Bald> and in book 3 political strife is riot
<Evgeny> Notice that uplifting dolphins is not a sole process. There's an eugenical program, determined to improve the Human race as well.
<Bald> the interesting thing is they had the same phobia's as earthlings
<Bald> and lord knows we need improving
<Evgeny> But what if improved we wouldn't be exactly "we"?
<verbatim> wow, I thought eugenics normally had negative connotations?
<MollyK> I have negative connotations to eugenics
<MollyK> but my parents were firmly in favor
<Bald> it did for 1940's Germany
<Bald> ROFL ... MollyK
<MollyK> hah, you think I am joking
<Bald> not at all
<Bald> LOL
<MollyK> the pathetic thing is they thought they were good candidates for reproduction
<MollyK> oh well
<verbatim> does Brin actually use the word eugenics in the book?
<Bald> yes
<MollyK> no, I don't recall that he does
<MollyK> he does?
<Bald> I believe so ... in one of the books anyway
<MollyK> ah, well, the concept is certainly there
<Evgeny> One place where eugenics should be possibly allowed is preventing ill people to be brought to life. But remember of people like Stephen Hawking, who couldn't exist that way!
<MollyK> yes, I think Stephen Hawking is a good example of the objections
<Bald> Oh I think we should ask his opinion on that
<MollyK> on what?
-> *channel* Irongrip was not present, fortunately, but the other Probationers on duty were hardly friendlier. For although the Gubru still paid their wages, it seemed their masters had recently deserted their cause. There had been no overturning of the Uplift program on Garth, no sudden reversal of the eugenics pyramid.
<Evgeny> At least, IMHO, Hawking looks like a person who _enjoys_ living.
<MollyK> I meant objections to prenatal terminations of disabled persons
<Bald> that is a quote from Startide
-> *channel* Irongrip was not present, fortunately, but the other Probationers on duty were hardly friendlier. For although the Gubru still paid their wages, it seemed their masters had recently deserted their cause. There had been no overturning of the Uplift program on Garth, no sudden reversal of the eugenics pyramid.
<MollyK> I missed a step somewhere here
<BaldScribe> Irongrip was not present, fortunately, but the other Probationers on duty were hardly friendlier. For although the Gubru still paid their wages, it seemed their masters had recently deserted their cause. There had been no overturning of the Uplift program on Garth, no sudden reversal of the eugenics pyramid.
<MollyK> aha
<MollyK> thanks
<MollyK> I have the impression that a number of people sitting in the back of the room have read all or part of this book -
<MollyK> I'd be interested to know what any of them got out of it
<verbatim> hmmmm so is "Uplift" being used ironically? ala say doublespeak?
<MollyK> I think its possible, though Brin seems more equivocal
<verbatim> Sounds like it with names like Irongrip
<Bald> well the names get pretty silly
<MollyK> yep
<Bald> but i guess it is tough coming up with names for ET's
<Evgeny> What can you say of characters of this story, I mean, especially, cetaceans? Did the author manage to introduce something new, or we see just again, the use of human psychology to describe aliens?
<Bald> I mean you couldn't call a person from Mars Bubba
<Anguissette> why not Bald? they called the cadaver Herbie
<Bald> LOL
<Bald> Evgeny there is were I think Brin did a good job
<Anguissette> well they did lol
<Bald> one of note is the simian professor
<Bald> the character was right on as my thinking goes of an uplifted chimp
<Bald> I'm sure in a thousand years I'll be blasted for that statement
<Anguissette> lol
<Evgeny> Bald: I'm not sure. I've met such people in reality :-/
<Bald> of course not
<Evgeny> lol
<MollyK> I've met professors like that
<Bald> ROFL
<MollyK> you don't have to be a chimp
<Bald> me too ... pretty close anyway
<MollyK> I thought Brin was indulging in a little payback
<Bald> had one professor declar to his class that he was god
<MollyK> heh
<Bald> that could well be
<MollyK> the monomania and mistreatment of grad students is a common thing
<Bald> and he had the atipical villians too
<Bald> and necessary according to some professor's
<MollyK> well, there you have it
<Bald> you could see Brin grow as a writer in this series
<MollyK> I even agreed, for a significant period of my life, before I got fed up
<MollyK> I haven't yet re-read some of the later books, but I do recall that I thought he did much better later on
<MollyK> that's the problem with sci fi - there's the ideas, and then there's the writing
<Bald> he does a lot of character building in book 3
<Bald> yes MollyK ... and when you can bring them together we have wonderful reading
<MollyK> we have to remember that this whole series had a profound effect on a later generation of writers
<Bald> P. Hamilton comes to mind
<MollyK> yes, I think you're probably right about that
<JWolf> I've only gotten up to chapter 26. But I did read book 1 in full.
<Bald> Brin also brought up PSI
<Anguissette> psi?
<Bald> which is still being worked on in reality
<MollyK> yes, and in a very different way than most writers of the time
<MollyK> I especially liked his use of haiku
<Bald> oh that was the other thing the use of many Japanese ideas
<Bald> and names
<MollyK> the mutally incomprehensibility of languages based on different physical environments is a cornerstone of generative grammar
<Bald> LOL
<MollyK> he made some interesting attempts to propose solutions
<JWolf> One thing I wasn't too keen on was the Trinary language
<Bald> Brin I think acknowledged PSI but keeping it real at the same time
<MollyK> I don't think they really WORKED, but it was fun to think about them
<Bald> me either JWolf
<MollyK> well, that's the point
<Bald> for one thing humans would never be able to do that
<JWolf> This is true
<Bald> but then we must remember Brin was modifing humans too
<MollyK> even though a lot of the prose was turgid and boring, I do appreciate this as a novel of ideas
<Bald> could we/would we do that?
<MollyK> experimental thought
<Bald> yes I agree MollyK
<Bald> boring indeed
<MollyK> sad <sigh>
<Bald> but good prose is a magical thing
<MollyK> but I am a fast reader, luckily
<Anguissette> so we agree it was a boring book?
<MollyK> oh, yes, good prose is a lot
<Bald> no we don't Anguissette
<Anguissette> oh
<Anguissette> what was boring then
<MollyK> I wasn't nearly as bored as I might have been, though, because the ideas were so fascinating
<Bald> Brin advanced some very interesting ideas
<MollyK> when I was an undergrad, Gregory Bateson was in my college for awhile
<Bald> and that is what makes sci/fi fun for me
<Evgeny> Bald: that's funnier to consider that in personal respect. Would you agree your children to have someway altered genes, for the goals of improving their odds of succeeding in life? I'm sure a lot of parents would answer "yes" to that.
<MollyK> he was often boring, but good heavens the imagination!
<Bald> it's the ideas that are brought into light
<MollyK> Evgeny, that's an important question
<MollyK> I think parents even now are attempting that
<Bald> Evgeny ... If you would meet any of my cousins you would ask that question of me
<Bald> *wouldn't
<MollyK> LOLOL
<Anguissette> lol Bald
<MollyK> now now
<MollyK> I have some really stupid cousins myself
<Evgeny> More important is that it can be solved on personal grounds. It's enough for _some_ parent to agree, for it to become a question of prestige, etc.
<Bald> well ... yes ... I think genetic experimentation should be on are list
<Bald> Evgeny I think you see it being done now
<Bald> parents picking the genetic makeup of their kids
<Evgeny> i have a very intelligent cousin, though. not all cousins are equal :)
<Bald> you see it at sperm banks all the time
<MollyK> I think even sex selection, which is definitely being done, shows how readily parents get into that morass
<Anguissette> sex selection?
<MollyK> we don't know nearly enough about genetics to be certain of results
<Anguissette> you can't choose the sex of a baby...
<MollyK> though for a good exploration of THAT, I like Cherryh's Cyteen
<Bald> if we could breed out the megalmania it might stop
<verbatim> apparently china and india now have disproportionate # of males due to earlier 1 child policies
<Evgeny> Anguissette: but you can terminate birth of a child of unwanted sex. In China where boys are a preferred sex, there's about 10% prevalence of boys in the society.
<MollyK> yes, verbatim, classic results
<Evgeny> Anguissette: due to sex selection.
<Anguissette> well thats stupid....
<Bald> Anguissette they are making headway in determining sex of a child
<Anguissette> i know in japan they don't have enough males to reproduce so they're paying men to have children with multiple women
<MollyK> Bald, I wonder what humans would be like if we bred out megalomania
<Bald> selective abortion is just one
<Bald> MollyK probably not as brilliant as with it
<MollyK> heh, belike
<JWolf> And we still have people making genetic mods that they want in secret
<MollyK> gene splicing is going forward, though much of it is not well known, true
<afaiktoit> there's plenty of room for improvement
<Bald> well stem cell research (which can now go forward) will improve the lives of many people in years to come
<MollyK> yes, afaiktoit, we can certainly agree on that
<Evgeny> that's quite dangerous, though. eugenics can ultimately lead Humans to disappear as species.
<afaiktoit> no great loss
<MollyK> the tricky thing about genetic modification is that we really don't understand what connects to what
<JWolf> I do hope people will get over themselves and stop say stem cell research is bad when it could be very good in fact
<Bald> eugenics is very dangerous
<MollyK> our map of the human genome is very primitive still
<afaiktoit> besides, we'll need all the help we can get to fight off the robots
<Anguissette> lol toity
<MollyK> lol, yes, indeed
<MollyK> Terminator instead of intelligent dolphins
<Bald> we are even now storing stem cells for future use
<Bald> and I think that practice will only increase
<afaiktoit> I always wondered why no one ever bred dogs for intelligence, they have them doing everything else
<Bald> the growing of replacement organs is next
<MollyK> oh, but they do
<yitz> c/
<MollyK> yes, yitz?
<Evgeny> if you care to go that way, i would like to touch the question of interspecies "racism".
<Evgeny> "Why didn't graduate students seek him out as an advisor? He saw his colleagues besieged by eager applicants for research assistantships, yet, in spite of his list of publications, his widely known and controversial theories, only the second-raters cam e to him, the students searching more for grant support than a mentor. None of the bright young mels and fems sought him out as an academic patron. Of course, there had been a couple of mi
<Evgeny> It's fun to think of all intelligent species as brothers, but really there's an interesting question: would you tolerate the situation when somebody who has actual power over you is not a human; but somebody with untrackable way of thinking who you have to obey though?
<MollyK> ahh
<yitz> (that was meant to be /c == /clear)
<MollyK> we're boring you, I guess
<MollyK> anyhow, interspecies racism seems likely
<afaiktoit> are we having the startide discussion?
<Bald> Evgeny remember that was a chimp saying that and he was uplifted by us earthlings
<yitz> I wasn't following. I was trying to get some work done ie earn my pay
<Evgeny> I can enjoy the idea of non human intelligent species. But I wouldn't like to take orders from someone who isn't like me.
<Bald> shame on you yitz
<MollyK> since humans can't get over their stupid human rascism
<yitz> Huh?
<Bald> putting paying bills and eating before us
<yitz> I but you guys before my sleep...
<MollyK> well, as a woman, I ended up taking orders from a great many people who weren't like me at all
<MollyK> IE, MEN
* Mysterytrain orders MollyK to make coffee. nicely
<MollyK> so I guess I have a different perspective on the issue
* yitz watches the pretty green swirls twirl across his field of vision
<Bald> oh boy
<Evgeny> human racism is indeed stupid, because essentially one human is like the other. that concerns the way of our thinking, etc.
<Mysterytrain> hehe
* MollyK swats Mysterytrain with a coffee pot
<Mysterytrain> lol
<MollyK> ;-p
<Evgeny> but what about somebody completely different from our ways?
<Bald> would they even think like us
<MollyK> that's one of the things Brin wanted us to think about
<Bald> I believe not
<Anguissette> Evgeny: id never take orders from another species
<Bald> Anguissette you may have no choice
<MollyK> they WOULDN'T think like us, that's the root of the language problem
<Evgeny> Anguissette: what if you have to?
<Bald> exactly MollyK
<Anguissette> uh...why would i?
<Bald> how could we ever hope to speak to them
<Evgeny> Anguissette: imagine yourself in the interstellar army.
<MollyK> metaphorically, I guess
<Anguissette> i wouldn't be in any army. lol
<MollyK> which is what he is trying to show with all the haiku
<MollyK> and the psi
<Bald> yes
<Bald> good point
<Anguissette> much less an interstellar one
<Bald> interstellar army ... all I can think of is a stinky spaceship
<MollyK> hah
<Mysterytrain> in the spaceship
<Evgeny> lol
<Mysterytrain> the silver spaceship
<Bald> we would win with BO
<Mysterytrain> the lion waves goodbye
<Anguissette> lol mysty
* Mysterytrain snickers
<Bald> well I think Brins Uplift series though not the best writing around is certainly worth reading
<Cygfrydd> Is it uplifting?
<MollyK> yes, it has endless ideas for thought and discussion
<Evgeny> An army is a good example. Consider somebody who would consider humans more expendable than other species?
<Bald> don't we do that now Evgeny
<MollyK> another point about armies is that often they rely on conscription
<JWolf> Well the ones who are trying to wipe out the humans think they are expendable for sure
<Bald> the grunt foot soldier is worth less than the general
<Mysterytrain> and uniformity
<MollyK> making choice not so readily available
<Evgeny> But actually, it happens our days, with our real human armies. Other forces but yours are always better expendable.
<MollyK> yep, that's entirely true
<JWolf> But if you loose too many of the grunts, the generals will be of no use
<MollyK> if we ever started thinking of our enemies as worth as much as our friends, we would have to give up warfare
<Evgeny> the generals are of no use any time. for Humankind, i mean.
<Bald> Evgeny please type /hop in channel
<Evgeny> perhaps it would be a goal, ultimately? I mean, giving up warfare.
<MollyK> yes!
<MollyK> I personally like that we can have this conversation with Evgeny
* Bald sets mode: +v Evgeny
<Bald> hmmm
<Evgeny> MollyK: why?
<MollyK> since within my memory that would have been considered nearly treasonous
<MollyK> our countries were enemies, remember?
<Evgeny> MollyK: are you from germany? :-)
<MollyK> and now we can talk, which is a great improvement
<MollyK> no, I am an american
<Bald> gads just made Evgeny an op in another channels ... LOL
<Evgeny> MollyK: i'm having good attitude towards Germans, though.
* Mysterytrain bopz bald
<MollyK> of course you are
<MollyK> I am talking about talking instead of war
<MollyK> a GOOD think
<MollyK> thing
<MollyK> sorry, I didn't mean to divert into anything confusing
<Verily> war is better than talking
* MollyK bopz Verily
<Verily> if you discuss issues the strongest doesn't always win
<Evgeny> MollyK: don't consider us russians stupid brainwashed idiots. unless your government launches a military attack against us, you don't have to care of any mistreatment.
<MollyK> Evgeny, I don't
<Mysterytrain> lol even MollyK stole my bopz
<JWolf> 3 of my 4 grandparents came from Russia
<MollyK> but I am a lot older than you, I think, and I grew up during the Cold War
* Verily watches as obama marshals the troops for a massive attack on evgeny
<Bald> Evgeny it wouldn't be the russian people we would fear ... the government might be another thing
<MollyK> even then I didn;t think Russians were stupid, but it was not allowed, this communication
<MollyK> human governments are always problematic
<Bald> and always will be i think
<Evgeny> MollyK: you know, the Soviet Union is something that happened eternity ago
<MollyK> probably
<Bald> at least in our life times
<MollyK> Evgeny, it was not so long ago for someone my age
<Verily> evgeny your present culture grew out of comunism
<MollyK> I am glad it seems like ancient history to you
<Verily> you cant get away from that fact
<Bald> LOL Evgeny ... you must think me very very old
<MollyK> my younger siblings think a lot of things are ancient history that I demonstrated about as a student
<Verily> evgeny, in the past couple decades, russia has been one of the most war-hungry countries on earth
<Cygfrydd> ... Molly, did you burn your bra?
<MollyK> Verily, stop that
<afaiktoit> like the louisiana purchase
* Mysterytrain bopz Cygfrydd
<MollyK> no personal attacks
<Bald> cause I remember being taught to hide under my desk when the bombs come
<afaiktoit> she was totally against that
<MollyK> me too
<MollyK> honestly, you boys
<Mysterytrain> I remember that afaiktoit
<Verily> its not a personal attack. its my opinion of russia and the world
<Mysterytrain> that young upstart tommy jefferson
<Evgeny> guys, let's perhaps return to the topic? :-)
<Cygfrydd> Hah. And remember that crazy Jewish carpenter??
<afaiktoit> she pulled his pigtails
<MollyK> the back of the room has started throwing spitwads
<Bald> our hour is about up Evgeny
<Mysterytrain> and I remember that weird guy george washington
<Verily> i have hopes that as russia gets more prosperous it'll calm down but at the moment it's a very warlike country
<Evgeny> not that we can't discuss our countries, but there's something we've gathered here for?
<Bald> Does anyone have anything esle to say on topic?
<MollyK> Verily, IMHO, the USA is a very warlike country
<MollyK> right, sorry
<Anguissette> Bald i do
<Bald> lets have it Anguissette
<MollyK> overall, I am not sorry to reread this book
<Verily> molly that's also true
<Anguissette> i dont liek fish
<Anguissette> there
<JWolf> Do the other books in the Uplift series get better? By better, is the writing improved as Brin gets more experience?
* Mysterytrain bopz de panda
<Bald> you just want to eat flipper
<MollyK> JWolf, I think so
<Verily> this isnt a book discussion now is it?
<Anguissette> eeewww
<Bald> OK .... Thanks Everyone
<Verily> if it is i'll be quiet
* Anguissette bopz de train
* JWolf sends Anguissette some fish and no chips
<Mysterytrain> lol
<MollyK> we're just about done
<Bald> And Thank You Evgeny ... good discussion
<MollyK> yes, thanks
<JWolf> Well done Evgeny
<Verily> sorry i didnt realize thats what was going on
<Verily> i'll stay out of it
<Bald> Everyone please note we have a new OP in channel
<Evgeny> hope we have a good book next month.
* Anguissette throws it back at wolfy
<MollyK> I appreciated all the study questions Evgeny brought in
<HypnoToad> I didn;t get to express an opinion...
<MollyK> welcome, Evgeny
<Bald> I knew he would do a good job
<Evgeny> MollyK: ty
* Mysterytrain sets mode: -m
<MollyK> in fact, all our best discussions have had that sort of preparation
<Evgeny> i just read a book
<MollyK> it's hard work to get this crowd discussing, take your bow and our thanks
<Cygfrydd> Easier to get this crowd disgusted. ;-P
<Anguissette> lol cyggy
<Anguissette> wb thecat
<MollyK> yes, now we have to start thinking about the next nominations
<Evgeny> Verily: i've contacted you privately. just not sure everyone around would be interested in that discussion. you can reply me if you like.
<thecat> hi hi!
<Cygfrydd> Molly: I have one.
<Mysterytrain> yeah I have some book ideas
<MollyK> uh oh
<Mysterytrain> w/b thecat dahlin
<MollyK> well, please say on
<Cygfrydd> _The Shack_, William P. Young.
<MollyK> don't know it - give a thumbnail sketch?
<Mysterytrain> there's a book by Richard North Patterson I wish to nominate, but it's text only. I am going to get a dt and redo it though
<Mysterytrain> at that time, i will nominate it
<MollyK> hmm, are thrillers really good for discussion?