<BaldScribe> everyone in channel has read Larry Niven’s Fallen Angels

<AK3D> oh I see

<BaldScribe> Right

<BaldScribe> Who do we have here for the dicussion?

* AK3D looks shame faced

<Miles_V> Me!

<AK3D> me too

<BaldScribe> dpd what about you?

<BaldScribe> just three of us?

<AK3D> for your sakes, I tried.. tried too hard in fact.. and finally left it :( .. I’m sorry :(

<Miles_V> so you enjoyed the book AK?

<AK3D> DPD is there, just very busy

<AK3D> no.. left it after 2 chapters or so…

<AK3D> ahem, but I’m here!

<Miles_V> where is MerrysPla?

<BaldScribe> ok heres some back ground on Niven

<AK3D> 3 people discussing?

(!) Now pasting to #bookclub…

<BaldScribe> Larry Niven (Laurence van Cott Niven) was born on April 30th 1938, in Los Angeles, California. In 1956 he entered the California Institute of Technology, only to flunk out a year and a half later after discovering a bookstore jammed with used

<BaldScribe> science-fiction magazines. Larry finally graduated with a B.A. in mathematics (and a minor in psychology) from Washburn University, Kansas, in 1962, and completed one year of graduate work in mathematics at UCLA before dropping out to write.

<BaldScribe> Larry is probably best known for his “Known Space” future history which to date contains over 30 short stories and novels which intermingle into a complex

<BaldScribe> timeline dating from several billion years into prehistory into the fantastic future world of 3200 and beyond.

<BaldScribe> Niven was awarded the Skylark Award in 1973 (Officially the “Edward E. Smith Memorial Award for Imaginative Fiction”), is given

<BaldScribe> annually by the New England Science Fiction Association, for significant contribution to SF in the spirit of the writer E.E. “Doc” Smith.

<AK3D> aha, didn’t know that

<BaldScribe> So what did you guys think about authors who write books to show appreciation directly to the fans?

<Miles_V> EE Doc Smith rocks!

<AK3D> I haven’t read any of his

<Miles_V> IMHO they should cease and desist

<BaldScribe> Miles_V i take it you didn’t like the book?

<dpd> hello Miles_V, AK3D, BaldScribe, _really, pragmarel

<Miles_V> perhaps I found it strange since I haven’t been to and SciFi conventions

<BaldScribe> jealous?

<BaldScribe> maybe we should start our own conventions

<BaldScribe> BookclubCon

<Miles_V> they way these people ream to react reminds me of what I saw on TV wrt Star Trek conventions

<AK3D> hmm

<JayeM> :)

<Miles_V> ream = seam

<BaldScribe> did you see that picture of Niven?

<BaldScribe> he looked like one of his fans

<Miles_V> which pic BaldScribe?

<AK3D>… where?

<JayeM> had trouble connecting…guess you’ve already started

<BaldScribe> try this miles !bookclub NivenSynopsis.rar

<Miles_V> JayeM - just started

<JayeM> cool

<AK3D> thanks BaldScribe

<Miles_V> BaldScribe - The book wasn’t truly bad

<BaldScribe> I thought the idea of do-gooders finally being the world to it’s knees was right on the money

<BaldScribe> *bring

<Miles_V> It was just somehow improbable to me

<BaldScribe> will yes i think so too Miles_V

<JayeM> I liked the book

<BaldScribe> fans don’t put spaceships in the air

<dpd> a bit too improbable

<Miles_V> especially how the goverment completly lost track w.r.t. science

<JayeM> the only problem I had with it was that they were always having to be rescued

<dpd> it was nice to read but left no impact afterwards

<BaldScribe> but i could see where a political environment like that could exist

<Miles_V> and how Sci_fi authors became outcast like this :)

<BaldScribe> heh… like i said i could see that happening

<BaldScribe> science is becoming difficult to teach anymore

<JayeM> there was a fan behind every tree just waiting to help them out of impossible situations

<BaldScribe> they want religion in our schools

<JayeM> creationism…bah

<Miles_V> another weak point was that the plot was so ludicrous - spacemen crash Fans save tehm and launch them back to space

<JayeM> yeah

<Miles_V> it was rather straight forward no mystery really no surprise

<JayeM> but improbable is ok in sci fi

<Miles_V> no meat

<Miles_V> JayeM - I meant that it was… simplistic

<JayeM> but the cavalry shouldn’t come riding over the hill till the characters have solved their own problems

<BaldScribe> only one twist at the end

<JayeM> bad plotting

<BaldScribe> but i think we all seen that one coming

<JayeM> oh yeah

<Miles_V> now I have read other books of Niven and some on which he collaborated and they were far superious to this novel

<JayeM> The Mote in God’s Eye

<JayeM> loved it

<BaldScribe> he did have other authors to contend with :)

<Miles_V> oh yeah - walk naked up to a guy - make love and take his seat on the shuttle :)

<AK3D> ringworld and those puppeteers were good too

* Miles_V nods wrt Mote :)

<Miles_V> Gripping Hand…

<JayeM> the sequel wasn’t as good

<Miles_V> BaldScribe - perhaps I’m missing the reason why Niven wrote the novel this way?

<Miles_V> He did say it was intentional

<BaldScribe> all i know it was written for his fans

<BaldScribe> as a thankyou

<JayeM> to show the power of a huge underground

<JayeM> ?

<JayeM> and the stupidity of the government for creating it?

<Miles_V> perhasp he never really put as much into it as a propper researched novel would have justified - there were also a lot of IN jokes I suppose that only fans would have caught or appreciated

<BaldScribe> don’t think any underground of sci/fi fans would be that organized

<JayeM> if they were outlawed…maybe

<BaldScribe> ok… what did you think of the songs ?

<JayeM> meh

<Miles_V> I for one thought it laughable that a spaceship would still be in such good order after so many years

<BaldScribe> personally they i thought them the dorkiest thing in the book

<JayeM> I’m not much on musicals

<BaldScribe> or that the diesel fuel would still be fresh

<Miles_V> surely a few washers perished or some tube got damaged etc

<BaldScribe> lol JayeM

<Miles_V> also none of the characters ever developed suitably for me to really enjoy the book

<BaldScribe> it was hard to care about any of them i thought

<JayeM> there was one paragraph in the book I absolutely loved…can I paste it?

<BaldScribe> maybe the astronauts

<Miles_V> the best of them was the Girl who got dragged into the whole mess

<Miles_V> sure

<JayeM> Now, the next article on surrealistic housekeeping is one you have all been asking for. How do you keep watches from melting on the arms and backs of your sofas and chairs? Why, it is simplicity itself, provided, of course, that you have enough lace Dalis…

<Miles_V> Salvador Dali

<JayeM> I love puns :)

<BaldScribe> hehe… the whole microwave thing did it for me

<BaldScribe> that’s about when i stopped paying attention

* Miles_V appologizes to BaldScribe for venting so :)

<BaldScribe> my luck would be my brains would have gotten fried

<JayeM> it was…odd

<BaldScribe> but the image of naked people dancing on a glacier was a good one

* Miles_V looks at Niven’s picture and nearly falls out of his seat

<BaldScribe> told you Miles_V

<JayeM> pic?

<BaldScribe> does he look like a dork or what

<AK3D> he looks like goldenUSG in a good mood?

<BaldScribe> molding the characters out of real life people must have been fun for the authors

<BaldScribe> but it didn’t do much for me

<ReadAlot-> Has anyone played Knights of the Old Republic 2 - Sith Lords by any chance?

<BaldScribe> as i don’t know them well enough to pickup personal traits

<BaldScribe> ReadAlot-… Please wait for the discussion to be over… Thanks

<BaldScribe> so i guess no one will recommend this book?

<ReadAlot-> What discussion

<BaldScribe> was there any saving graces at all in the work?

* BaldScribe points ReadAlot- to the topic

<BaldScribe> didn’t see you leave Miles_V

<BaldScribe> dpd .. did you read the book?

<dpd> i think it was a feel good book at best

<BaldScribe> ok… so i guess that’s why MerrysPla didn’t show

<BaldScribe> (:Þ

<Miles_V^> I was looking at that nice synopsis BaldScribe did for us - intresting how he actually based his characters on real fans

<BaldScribe> you missed my comment on that Miles_V

<BaldScribe> i said i must have been interesting for the authors

<Miles_V^> pls re paste

<AK3D_> yup.. dial up died

<BaldScribe> but that i don’t know them well enough to pick out personality traits

<Miles_V^> now has anyone been to one of these conventions ??

<Jaye> no…

<Miles_V^> Is it true that they use Acronyms like in this novel??

<BaldScribe> it seems they must have Miles_V

<Jaye> I think that part was probably real

<Jaye> FIAWOL

<Miles_V> Fafiated

<Jaye> lol

<Miles_V> etc

<Miles_V> now I just found that really silly but I’m nearly as stuffy as _really

<BaldScribe> not possibel Miles_V

<Jaye> that one and gafiated may have invented after fandom became illegal

<BaldScribe> and why is _really so quiet… don’t tell me he didn’t read it!

* Miles_V turns an eye to _really…

* BaldScribe pokes _really

<AK3D> I’m listening in

* Miles_V prods _really

<BaldScribe> ok… do we any other comments on this book?

<AK3D> sorry guys, though.. next time, I’ll surely be more actively involved

* Miles_V switches on the current

<BaldScribe> you said that last time AK3D

* Miles_V pukes in the background

<ReadAlot-> lol

<Miles_V> oops sorry :)

<BaldScribe> So which book are we going to read next?

<AK3D> grin, this is my first time here ;)

<AK3D> for a book discussion at least

<Jaye> me too

<Miles_V> Has every one cast their vote in the forum?

<BaldScribe> you know editing this log is going to be a bitch :‘t

<Jaye> forum?

<Miles_V> if not please do so within the next 10 mins - vote for next monthjs book :)

<Jaye> link?

<ReadAlot-> Url?

<Miles_V> lol - sorry BaldScribe :)

<BaldScribe> hehe

<BaldScribe> http://forums.cjb.net/bookclub.html

<ReadAlot-> thansk

<Miles_V> look here for the books ——> http://forums.cjb.net/bookclub.html?c=2&sid=44ddd85f687b4aa87db7ff7627e443d0

<BaldScribe> the books got a lot of views

<AK3D> 35 or so

<AK3D> BaldScribe how’d you find pastoral so far?

<Miles_V> look here for the books ——> http://forums.cjb.net/bookclub-forum-2.html

<Miles_V> this is the correct link

<BaldScribe> i’m finding it a very nice read

<BaldScribe> though some grammatical errors

<AK3D> hmm, shute’s style, that?

<AK3D> or my checking it

<BaldScribe> no i think this is just the way he writes

<BaldScribe> or perhaps his editor

<Miles_V> 7 minutes to final vote :)

<Jaye> I don’t know any of the books

<Miles_V> say if you need more time

<_really> can you give an example, baldscribe?

<AK3D> say, why not discuss both books eh?

<Miles_V> AK time - not every one even makes oine book

<Miles_V> one

<BaldScribe> not off hand _really

<AK3D> I’m going to read fire upon the deep anyway

<AK3D> hmm

<BaldScribe> i started that one put it lost me

<_really> i listened to the audiobook some time ago…i dont recall gramatical errors..maybe i just didnt notice

<AK3D> hm, can you vote for your own book? :p

<BaldScribe> sure AK3D

<Miles_V> the 1st half is slow and steady it picks up after

<Jaye> a lot of books are like that…introducing the characters and such

<AK3D> forever war I must say, it wasn’t too good.. or up to standards actually

* AK3D eyes Miles_V

<Miles_V> even Altered Carbon looks good

* Miles_V listens to AK

<BaldScribe> i liked that one

<Miles_V> but I will still read it

<Miles_V> :)

<AK3D> even BaldScribe thought you read it hahahahah

<BaldScribe> he hasn’t?

<Miles_V> AK my post is clear

* AK3D grins

<BaldScribe> a blind nomination?

<BaldScribe> Oi

<Miles_V> read the fine print :)

* AK3D smacks Miles_V about with a dead tree

<BaldScribe> LOL

<BaldScribe> at some point i would like to nominate a book we can get our teeth into

<Jaye> like?

<BaldScribe> brake it up into parts

<AK3D> how about lord of the rings, in that case :p

<Jaye> omg

<BaldScribe> well we did a Steinbeck that was interesting

<Miles_V> naw - too well known

<AK3D> hmmm… grapes of wrath?

<Jaye> loved the hobbit, but the rings trilogy dragged

<AK3D> why not well known books, even! after all we can simply discuss them

<Jaye> oh, something more classic?

<AK3D> those are read again and again, and we can simply get into the discussion easily.. even more

<AK3D> I mean, apart from the montly ‘official’ discussion

<BaldScribe> there should be some books out there that aren’t too long that have some depth to them

<AK3D> say every week or so

<Miles_V> of Mice and Men was a great example

<BaldScribe> you are welcome to discuss anytime you want AK3D

<AK3D> that’s John Steinbeck too

<Miles_V> yes AK - and it was deep and short

<AK3D> hmm okay, then next sunday lets try ‘tale of two cities’

<BaldScribe> Of Mice and Men had a lot to offer

<Miles_V> ok has everyone voted?

<BaldScribe> that would be a good one AK3D

<Jaye> next Sunday…you have this every week?

<BaldScribe> not offically Jaye

<AK3D> no, its monthly

<AK3D> but unofficially as BaldScribe suggested

<Jaye> cool

<Miles_V> no Jaye - it’s just this insane AK

<BaldScribe> it’s the 4th sunday of the month

<BaldScribe> we did try twice a month for awhile

<AK3D> its a suggestion anyway, to discuss a book, just keep it for topic

* AK3D - !baldscribe enthusiasm for books.rar

<_really> it seems like books with depth are usually avoided

<AK3D> and books about the sea too

<Jaye> lol, are we superficial?

<BaldScribe> we must change the world _really

<Miles_V> _really make a suggestion!

<AK3D> there’s john brunner’s interstellar empire, which is a very good read

<BaldScribe> it’s our lot in life

<AK3D> three stories actually

<_really> no this isnt a superficial group but it seems to be afraid of running some people off

<AK3D> anyone read “interstellar empire”

<_really> if it’s not sf or fantasy you seem afraid some wont read it

<AK3D> ah its not in ebook format, even

<BaldScribe> I’m ready for something other than sci/fi and fantasy

<_really> i propose a rule…once a book is discussed don’t discuss another book in that genre for 4 months

<Miles_V> OK if i read correctly we have a tie between “Paradise News” by David Loadge (3 Votes); “The Forever War” by Joe Haldeman (3 Votes), and “A Fire Upon the Deep” by Vernor Vinge.

<BaldScribe> at least a really good sci/fi

* Miles_V agrees

<AK3D> pastoral then :p

<Miles_V> so then that leaves Paradise news

<BaldScribe> is there anything that say’s we must do fiction?

<BaldScribe> why not a non fiction sometime?

<AK3D> really that’s nicer than what I could write :p

<AK3D> ow, BaldScribe

<BaldScribe> undernet just doesn’t like me

<Miles_V> If we are going to abbandon SF for a bit I would like to read Paradise News

<AK3D> having trouble connecting, I guess

<BaldScribe> actually it’s bookz flooding me out

<Miles_V> close bookz for abit :)

<BaldScribe> just did

* Miles_V prods _really for an answer

<Miles_V> sigh

<BaldScribe> heh

* Miles_V prods _really for an answer

<AK3D> LOL

<__really> im back

<__really> what was the question?

<Miles_V> so are you goin gto vote for Pastoral _really?

<__really> i did vote for pastoral

<Miles_V> or Paradise News

<__really> well i did just before i got disconnected

<AK3D> LOL

<BaldScribe> I say we go with Pastoral

<__really> i dont believe in paradise

<BaldScribe> AK3D will you moderate?

<AK3D> for pastoral, I will

<BaldScribe> Ok thanks AK3D i knew you would

<Jaye> ok, that’s 2 for paradise news and 2 for pastoral

* Miles_V slaps pragmarel around a bit with a 1000 page eBook :)

* Miles_V prods pragmarel

<Miles_V> we need a tie break!

<AK3D> I love the book quite a bit, actually

<Miles_V> ok I’m changing my vote

<Miles_V> I vote pastoral

<BaldScribe> YEA we have a book!!